Pickmonitor Is ? (Growing, Dying Or Somewhere In Between) 4,499 views

I was thinking the other day about the above question. I'll start by saying that I'm not at all a tech guy and don't know much about website statistics. I started by searching the basic website metric sites, Alexa is the easy site I know of.

I wanted to see how this site stacks up against other handicapping/monitoring sites. I wanted to do a few bigger sites and some smaller sites to compare the amount of traffic for all of them. Covers, Pregame, Wagerminds & Handicappers Watchdog were the sites I could think of that would compare to this site.

I had figured that Covers and Pregame would blow away the rest. This is how they ranked Both global and States.

  1. Covers - Global rank icon8,737, United States Flag2,188
  2. Pregame- Global rank icon67,676, United States Flag16,834
  3. Pickmonitor- Global rank icon163,175, United States Flag23,924
  4. Wagerminds- Global rank icon921,000, United States Flag203,423
  5. Watchdog- Global rank icon3,920,354, United States FlagNA
Like I said Covers was no surprise at all. I did expect Pregame to be much higher than PM, as you can see it did not beat PM by much. I know wagerminds has a strong presence on twitter and expected them to be higher than this. Handicappers Watchdog was a guessing game for me, I had an account and really never did anything with it.

The main thing that stands out to me is that PM has almost no global traffic, in fact it says that 93.4% of traffic is from the US. PM is very close to Pregame in the US and smokes those other two in both catagories. If those numbers are correct, then I think this site is doing very well domestically. My perception was with Pregame being on ESPN (R.J Bell on Cowherd weekly) and in magazines that it would be well above PM.

I few months back Tucker19 brought back a thread that was over a year old.

In this thread he talks about the site not growing and what can we do to grow and make new users more welcome. Maybe we are doing and good job and just looking at the the situation the wrong way.

I'm thinking that maybe we are for the most part topped out at our current active handicappers #. The reason for this in my mind is that most of the new users that come and go are not handicappers at all. They are gamblers,bettors and sports fans. I have recommend a few people over the last 2 years and they never stick around. Thats when it dawned on me that they are action junkies and don't really get what handicapping is.

These people are not like the bulk of the long term users on this site. In fact my one friend said he has no interest in forum's unless they are handing out prizes for precipitating. He didn't want to track because he can hit 70% in his sleep he told me. Thats exactly why he and many others don't get it at all and therefore don't stick around.

If PM wants to get more active members it has to cater to the bettor/gambler more. The only way I see that happening is to offer contests,games and prizes. The downside of this will be less educated users in the forum and more BS caused from that. On the flip side it could create more money for Patrick and platinum members.

In my opinion this site is doing very well based on what it is. To be not that far behind Pregame in the US is pretty solid in my mind. It has 150/200 active handicappers and group of weekly if not daily visitors who are pretty savvy when it comes to sports investing.

I'm not sure how accurate Alexa is with its sats and numbers.It sure does let me know that just cause you have more traffic it does not mean that the site is better than PM. Anyone who has been on covers can tell you that and knows exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe someone with more experience can let us know if those numbers really mean anything or if they are at all accurate.

I'll be the first to admit that I do my fare share of chasing screwballs of the site. I need to remember that most of the people that come to this site are not here to handicap, but are here to have fun and enjoy the site.

PS I hope all the links work and if anyone has anything to add please chime in.


Edited 8/29/13 at 12:33AM by Daltonis - No reason listed.


Timothy Wynn awarded 1250 tokens for this post.

LadyBet awarded 2395 tokens for this post.

I sure hope it is not "dying"...the SEASON is just about to get started and I have waited for this since I found this site just at the end of football season last year. I took some time away during baseball in order to not get burned out on picks. Now let the games begin!!!! Have a great football season everyone and may we all prosper from our picks!!!! :))
Great post Daltonis. Great job. I think the sign-ups will increase once the NFL starts. I think more people go to the search engines during the NFL season. For example - what is a point spread? Can I buy or sell sports picks etc. I think we have enough key words on the search engines, therefore I believe we will see a big increase on sign-ups.

The largest problem (unrelated to this website) is that offshore sports betting is declining and has been for a while. The UIGA was passed in 2005 and is strangling the industry to death by cutting off the funding. Take a look HERE and HERE and you can see that everything peaked in 05 and is 20%-25% of what is was back then... even the peaks in the NFL season are quite a bit less. If New Jersey can get a favorable outcome in their sports wagering lawsuit it could be a nice boost for a website like this because of the access to the New York market. An additional boost would be Chris Christi becoming President in 2016 as he is clearly pro-gaming, something that has lacked for many years.

The average person doesn't want to go to a Western Union and send their cash to some strange person in a third world country. No matter how you spin it, it "feels" like you are doing something wrong and illegal.

Degenerates, whales, syndicates, and people that profit by doing this are most likely always going to be around, it's the casual $20 bettor that is lost and those where the "meat and potatoes" of the industry at it's peak. Sports wagering will ALWAYS be around whether legal or not but it's peak has passed a while ago and it wont be getting better any time soon. Sites like this will suffer, especially with things like the popular daily fantasy leagues that are gaining momentum.

Hello ive actually been on Pick Monitor for just under a month and as a numbers/statistics person i love the website. I do take my amateur handicapping status seriously as im not a bettor, gambler. The only "gambling" i do and i use that term loosely, sarcastically is participating in contests like BTS on, Survivor Streak on Covers and even Espn SFTC. To me personally this is much more of a useful website for a future handicapper such as myself and serious gamblers. As far as bringing traffic i agree that some legitimate contests would bring more visitors. It just depends on what kind of visitors you want to attract. Covers which has been around forever has a volume of contests which go all year long and therefore brings in consistent traffic but at same time is full of sarcastic braggers and posting on forums there can be an interesting possibly unpleasant experience. People can be somewhat brutal (such is life) and i dont post for the purpose of arguing with people who claim theyre 70% 24/7. Anyway, Pick monitor is for intelligent people that like numbers. Good contests which require intelligence on a consistent basis will attract quality visitors. Just my opinion.
I'm not that familiar with the others, but imo you can't really compare with the likes of covers. That's a giant site covering all manner of things, where the handicapper monitoring element is just a sideshow.

Thearf- I agree with you that you really can't compare Covers to this site. I was more comparing what the bigger gambling oriented sites web traffic was. I would never want this site to be like them, but the contests and prizes are a good element of the site.

Parker made a good point that I had not really thought of before. I had no idea that offshore betting had declined by that much. It makes sense that most people will not jump through hoops to make a bet, especially if they can just make a call to a local and get the action they need.

I have a couple different opinions. In no way are they to put down or belittle anyone associated to this site. It is just my opinion as a user. The first is the overall look and feel of the site. While it is user friendly, I feel that it is a "play site". What I mean by that is the website itself lacks eye catching appeal. No pictures, no logos, nothing to really catch the eye. After all, the look of a site itself is a BIG thing. Thats about the best and nicest way to put it. I also think it needs some major overhauling in the forum. I think like covers does, we need categories in the forum so you know what your getting yourself into when you enter. I agree that contests and whatnot are needed to bump up interest but as everyone knows, you start getting alot of riff raff. What about some of the talented writers (or handicappers) having their own daily, weekly, or monthly column. Lots of useful information and insight could be passed on. BUT, in order for this site to grow and have "eye appeal", I think it is in need of some most needed changes. Just my opinion so if you dont agree, we have to agree to disagree. My two cents

Don't have much time, but I think Timothy has the right idea. Come up with his own site and use pickmonitor to track his and others progress. Pickmonitor is just that, a pick monitoring site.

These forums are a community bonus, but I think any marketing or whatever promotional else you need to do on your own. I've mentioned it many times before. This site serves a great purpose and I'm thankful for it, but unless you're marketing yourself, I don't see this site itself as an organic source of traffic.

Unless the site owner wants to change the site purpose, I think it's a great site for what it's meant for at this time.


Well, if you cant get people to stay on this site long enough to look at your picks you are trying to sell whats the point. Aren't most on here trying to sell picks. What good does it do to have it just to monitor picks. Go to the site, track picks, and go to another site's forum and give other people business.

You want people to stay on the site. That's how you make money.


Sorry, by monitoring I assume selling. No offense to the gold subscriber concept, but I think it's lame, haha,,, but it's a side benefit I think of this site perhaps.

What I mean is that my subscribers are not reading Forum posts for ideas. They are selecting handicappers based on external reviews, reference, recommendations, etc... I don't count on pickmonitor to promote me. I do that on the side. Pickmonitor enables me to do that though. There may be other tools out there to do this, however it's the one I found and tested and appears to work well.

I agree with you on the look/feel of this site would have to change if you want site based writers and capping journalism and etc... but again, that's a totally different.


I think people that come here to just sell is kind of what hurts the forum. This is not meant to offend any of the sellers as I see that as an important part of this site.

The guys that just come to sell have almost no presence in the forum. That is why in the last 2 years I have seen many new names go platinum and are gone in no time at all. The only reason I have ever seen as to why they don't use the forum is that they don't want to give away their capping secrets and they just don't have anything to say.

Just taking a look at the Platinum members at the current time, 11 of 19 are above 100 in REP. 1 of those is Tucker and he does not sell, another is RenoChazz Premium and that does not count. That means its really only 17 sellers, of those 8 have almost no REP at all.

I would think that as a seller you would want to sell yourself as much as your picks. When a guy says they don't want to give away secrets or techniques and that is why they don't use the forum. That is kind of a weak argument when you look at guys like RenoChazz, Mike McClain & Takeo. Those guys have talked endlessly about handicapping without giving away anything important. I belive that those guys built up base clients just from being active in the forum.

This is just my opinion and not meant to piss people off. I don't think you have to be part of the forum to be successful, I just think it would help for sure. I think Myles-to-go has got it correct to a point. This site is basically a monitoring site and nothing else in it's current format.

Edited 8/29/13 at 9:04PM by Daltonis - No reason listed.


Line.Com aka Pickmonitor is nothing but a monitor-side , despite the founders and developers dreams and a great start,

a few of you will remember.

No Business can be successful when the owner is not around "24/7" , and re-invents his business model from time to time.

No business was and will be ever a self-running one.

The Platinum and Gold Membership is contra-productive IMO , as no professional Handicapper will ever come here ,

who wants to give out his picks for free just for the benefit of the owner and his handful of paying members ?

At this point the only way for PM to become something bigger and greater than just being an ordinary monitor side

is if Patrick would sell it and somebody with visions and a heck of time would take over .


There may be a point about the lack of non-US users.

In a sense, this is inevitable when you use 5dimes for your prices. Soccer at 16c (-108)? You can get -102.5 if you use the big three pro books (pinnacle/sbo/ibc). That's the largest betting market in the world, penalised so heavily it's near impossible to win longterm. Take a 53% player, who is making over 4.5% RoI with proper lines. Here and at 5dimes he'll barely do better than breaking even, and there's not much incentive to enter your plays.

Don't even get me started on tennis - pinnacle has -106 for sides/totals, 5dimes and here have -115! That's part of the reason I stopped posting tbh ......... I post my usual 54.5% on totals, which has been a nice longterm money earner. Here it looks terrible :-)

The biggest irony of all is that 5dimes don't even serve professional clients. Beat them and they'll kick you.

Edited 8/29/13 at 11:47PM by Thearf - No reason listed.


agree , THEARF

you cannot ignore Soccer and the "lines" you offer here ((WHICH ARE SHIT / no AHC options , no totals options)) IF YOU WANT TO GROW

INTERNATIONALLY , remember , Soccer is the most followed sport in the world

Wow!!! Barbarossa and Daltonis, you hit it right on the head. I'm new here but look forward to some of the fantastic material some of you guys produce. My way of conquering my obsticals is continuously keeping my mind fresh so I read till blue in the face. This site is set up perfectly, it would take someone willing to put the time and money to promote the site to kick it into high gear. Very very true fact. No business runs on its own, why do you think covers is number one, they have a fleet of people running and monitoring the site. Anyway thanks for the input guys.
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Drawing from my personal experiences and failed .com enterprises over the last decade I think a primary factor here that will lead Pick Monitor to stagnate, grow and flourish, or reach an untimely demise would be that a community driven website is really more so about the members of the community itself, the strength and etiquette of the relationships created and sustained within the community, and the unselfish actions of the many or few members that are willing to offer further positives beyond what Patrick has already established. Patrick has provided a parcel of cyberspace to us for free. There is no doubt this is predominantly a monitoring site as many of you have already outlined above, but as far as the forum or community issues that have been stated in the previous posts... I honestly believe it is our, the community's responsibility, to make this a better place, and more attractive to potential members that are seeking not only a way to monitor their pick history, but also a place where you can learn, have civil discussions and/or debates without the trash talk, and hopefully establish friendships that will have a positive influence for all.

I recall something someone had told me a long time ago about the difference of having your own business as opposed to working for someone else. Those who work for others, and are on a salary payroll with no bonus structure, do not have a vested interest in the bottom line because the incentive is not there. When you are self employed, the harder you work, the more money you make, and therefore you will give 100% in your attempt to succeed.

Instead of seeking more from Patrick, would it not be in our best interest to partake in making this community even stronger on our own. Instead of waiting for Patrick to implement contests and pools, why not take the bull by the horns and do it ourselves. There was an NHL and MLB capping contest handled by members over the past year and even though I was not directly involved, it appeared as though members were having fun. Sure, it was an extremely elongated vertical thread in each case, but it was a contest nonetheless. There are ways, however, with the advent of many 3rd party pool managers, to prepare, moderate, and operate contests and pools without having to use the forum. If anyone is interested in an NFL Pick'em Pool, I would be more than happy to donate my time to do this. I mentioned it yesterday, but received no responses, probably because it was not a new thread, but an update on a game thread.

That's pretty much it, if you want something to improve, we have to do it ourselves in this case. Bigger is not always better, quality has always been more important to me personally. You may be the same.

Have a great day everyone!

Edited 8/31/13 at 10:32AM by Timothy Wynn - No reason listed.


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